Desalinization vs. Reservoirs

[Intelligent Party]

Raise Lake Shasta 200 Feet and thereby add 10 million acre feet of water.
Put in the Ah Pah Dam and thereby add 15 million acre feet of water. On
the Klamath River and form a scenic lake.
Put in the Dos Rios Reservoir and thereby add 7 million acre feet of
water. On the Eel River
Do these projects and then there will be enough water for the Peripheral
Canal, and a fledgling UC Fresno.
These would be Federal Water Programs, and there is runoff for the
State. These are huge projects like the Hoover Dam, yet desperately
needed if we are to have an Empire of 40 million people in California as
we have.
The farmers are 80% of the water, and are Federal water.
The homes are 20% of the water, and are State water.
There is runoff from Federal to State.
For comparison purposes, Lake Mead and Lake Powell, the nation's two
largest reservoirs are 25 million Acre Feet of water each.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/ca.water/y5tkrEW4Gkk

The Hoover Dam cost $49 million to build in 1930, equal to $860 million
today. Per Quora, we think it would cost much more today, closer to $10
billion.
https://www.quora.com/How-much-would-it-cost-to-build-the-Hoover-Dam-from-scratch-in-todays-dollars-and-under-todays-construction-rules

If it cost $10 Billion

The San Diego County Carlsbad Desalinization plant cost about $1 billion
to build
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claude_%22Bud%22_Lewis_Carlsbad_Desalination_Plant

It produces 50 million gallons of fresh water per day or 18.25 billion
per year.

If a dam allowing storage of 10 million acre feet, such as the Hoover
Dam cost $10 billion to build, we calculate that 1 acre foot of water is
325,851 gallons, and 10 million acre feet of water 3,258,509,400,000,
3.2 Trillion gallons of stored water.

We also calculate that 10 such desalinization plants as the one in San
Diego County, costing $10 billion total, would produce 18.25 billion x
10, 182.5 billion gallons of fresh water per year. Or 500,000,000
gallons x 365 days, also 182,500,000,000 gallons yearly.

We thus conclude, that because 3.2 trillion gallons is 17.85 times 182.5
billion gallons, dams still make more sense that desalinization plants.


If you were storing only 1 million acre feet, it would still be 1.785
time more water to have damns.

Maybe we can build desalinization plants more efficiently in the future?
Maybe there are economies of scale?

If you stored 10 million acre feet, and the dam only cost $1 billion it
would be 178.5 times more water. However, we should not build damns
that fail, and it should be a Federal project.


If there is anything wrong with this analysis, please correct it.

[John Doe]

Post by Intelligent Party

Raise Lake Shasta 200 Feet and thereby add 10 million acre feet of water.
Put in the Ah Pah Dam and thereby add 15 million acre feet of water.  On
the Klamath River and form a scenic lake.
Put in the Dos Rios Reservoir and thereby add 7 million acre feet of
water.  On the Eel River
Do these projects and then there will be enough water for the Peripheral
Canal, and a fledgling UC Fresno.
These would be Federal Water Programs, and there is runoff for the
State.  These are huge projects like the Hoover Dam, yet desperately
needed if we are to have an Empire of 40 million people in California as
we have.
The farmers are 80% of the water, and are Federal water.
The homes are 20% of the water, and are State water.
There is runoff from Federal to State.
For comparison purposes, Lake Mead and Lake Powell, the nation's two
largest reservoirs are 25 million Acre Feet of water each.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/ca.water/y5tkrEW4Gkk

The Hoover Dam cost $49 million to build in 1930, equal to $860 million
today.  Per Quora, we think it would cost much more today, closer to $10
billion.
https://www.quora.com/How-much-would-it-cost-to-build-the-Hoover-Dam-
from-scratch-in-todays-dollars-and-under-todays-construction-rules
If it cost $10 Billion
The San Diego County Carlsbad Desalinization plant cost about $1 billion
to build
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Claude_%22Bud%22_Lewis_Carlsbad_Desalination_Plant
It produces 50 million gallons of fresh water per day or 18.25 billion
per year.
If a dam allowing storage of 10 million acre feet, such as the Hoover
Dam cost $10 billion to build, we calculate that 1 acre foot of water is
325,851 gallons, and 10 million acre feet of water 3,258,509,400,000,
3.2 Trillion gallons of stored water.
We also calculate that 10 such desalinization plants as the one in San
Diego County, costing $10 billion total, would produce 18.25 billion x
10, 182.5 billion gallons of fresh water per year.  Or 500,000,000
gallons x 365 days, also 182,500,000,000 gallons yearly.
We thus conclude, that because 3.2 trillion gallons is 17.85 times 182.5
billion gallons, dams still make more sense that desalinization plants.
If you were storing only 1 million acre feet, it would still be 1.785
time more water to have damns.
Maybe we can build desalinization plants more efficiently in the future?
 Maybe there are economies of scale?
If you stored 10 million acre feet, and the dam only cost $1 billion it
would be 178.5 times more water.  However, we should not build damns
that fail, and it should be a Federal project.
If there is anything wrong with this analysis, please correct it.

I didn't carefully check the numbers, but it certainly makes sense to me.

I do think, though, that given the curve we are on toward basically free
energy, that at some point desalinization will be cost effective, and it
make sense to continue at least small scale experiments to find the best
methods.

[Intelligent Party]

Post by Intelligent Party

Raise Lake Shasta 200 Feet and thereby add 10 million acre feet of water.
Put in the Ah Pah Dam and thereby add 15 million acre feet of water. On
the Klamath River and form a scenic lake.
Put in the Dos Rios Reservoir and thereby add 7 million acre feet of
water. On the Eel River
Do these projects and then there will be enough water for the Peripheral
Canal, and a fledgling UC Fresno.
These would be Federal Water Programs, and there is runoff for the
State. These are huge projects like the Hoover Dam, yet desperately
needed if we are to have an Empire of 40 million people in California as
we have.
The farmers are 80% of the water, and are Federal water.
The homes are 20% of the water, and are State water.
There is runoff from Federal to State.
For comparison purposes, Lake Mead and Lake Powell, the nation's two
largest reservoirs are 25 million Acre Feet of water each.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/ca.water/y5tkrEW4Gkk

The Hoover Dam cost $49 million to build in 1930, equal to $860 million
today. Per Quora, we think it would cost much more today, closer to $10
billion.
https://www.quora.com/How-much-would-it-cost-to-build-the-Hoover-Dam-from-scratch-in-todays-dollars-and-under-todays-construction-rules
If it cost $10 Billion
The San Diego County Carlsbad Desalinization plant cost about $1 billion
to build
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claude_%22Bud%22_Lewis_Carlsbad_Desalination_Plant
It produces 50 million gallons of fresh water per day or 18.25 billion
per year.
If a dam allowing storage of 10 million acre feet, such as the Hoover
Dam cost $10 billion to build, we calculate that 1 acre foot of water is
325,851 gallons, and 10 million acre feet of water 3,258,509,400,000,
3.2 Trillion gallons of stored water.
We also calculate that 10 such desalinization plants as the one in San
Diego County, costing $10 billion total, would produce 18.25 billion x
10, 182.5 billion gallons of fresh water per year. Or 500,000,000
gallons x 365 days, also 182,500,000,000 gallons yearly.
We thus conclude, that because 3.2 trillion gallons is 17.85 times 182.5
billion gallons, dams still make more sense that desalinization plants.
If you were storing only 1 million acre feet, it would still be 1.785
time more water to have damns.
Maybe we can build desalinization plants more efficiently in the future?
Maybe there are economies of scale?
If you stored 10 million acre feet, and the dam only cost $1 billion it
would be 178.5 times more water. However, we should not build damns
that fail, and it should be a Federal project.
If there is anything wrong with this analysis, please correct it.

We have to consider capacity vs. yield.

This 1979 New York Times article states:
https://www.nytimes.com/1979/01/18/archives/us-may-add-200-feet-to-a-coast-dam-cheaper-alternative.html


"Many possibilities for tapping more water from the rushing northern
rivers are under consideration. An increasingly plausible one, engineers
say, would be to add about 200 feet to the height of Shasta Dam. That
would triple its storage capacity to 14 million acre‐feet, more than
one‐third of the state's annual consumption, and would increase the
reservoir's annual yield of four million acre‐feet some 25 percent."
January 18, 1979

This states a 300% increase in capacity, but only a 25% increase in yield!

This may not be the same for the Klammath River, which is dumping water
into the ocean, but the Desalinization numbers above are all yield!

Dams also give hydroelectric power which desalinization doesn't.

"The study even advances the possibility, by adding 300 feet to the
dam's height instead of 200, of increasing the storage capacity more
than sixfold, to 27 million acre‐feet."


"The 200‐foot addition would double the area of Lake Shasta, to 90
square miles."

"The 45-square-mile lake is California's biggest reservoir, storing the
equivalent of more than one‐tenth of the state's annual consumption of
water."

"The study is only a prospectus. If considered promising, it would be
followed by a four‐year feasibility study, two years of public review
and Congressional consideration, four years of design work, six years of
construction time, and four years of filling the reservoir to its
planned operating level. Actual operation, then, would be at least 20
years away." - 1979


33 year old Dam then, is now 78 years old now. Hoover Dam in Nevada is
93 years old.

California uses is 40 million acre feet of water per year, and this has
not increased in 50 years, even as the population has doubled.
See chart on 2nd page:
https://cwc.ca.gov/-/media/CWC-Website/Files/Documents/2019/06_June/June2019_Item_12_Attach_2_PPICFactSheets.pdf


"The dam, 3,400 feet across its rim, impounds in Lake Shasta 4.5 million
acre feet of water, normally releasing it at the staggering rate of
79,000 cubic feet a second. An acre‐foot is some 325,000 gallons, equal
to an acre of water a foot deep."

4.5 million acre feet = 1.46 Trillion gallons.